Herbal Learning
Boxing or Ballet? A Revealing Exploration Of Herb-Drug Interactions
Dec
You are sitting in a beautiful auditorium surrounded by elegant folk dressed for a glorious show. Suddenly, the lights begin to dim and a hush of anticipation comes over the audience. Sweet music begins to flow from the orchestra pit. Then, from wings, a flock of beautiful ballerinas float onto the stage in pink tutus. Their movements are fluid and graceful. They are one with the melodious singing of flutes and violins in the orchestra. Male danseurs then bound onto stage. Though their leotards are green instead of pink, they still perform beautifully with the ballerinas. They lift and promenade and perform intricate and glorious adagios together. Then there she is, the prima ballerina. Like an angel, she leaps to center stage, lighter on her feet than a bird and as fluid as the wind. Suddenly, the music changes, the wail of an electric guitar rips through the orchestral melodies like a chainsaw through a beautiful wedding cake. And, from stage left, the hero jumps onto stage. He, weaves and dodges and spins across the stage always keeping his guard up with his large boxing gloves. Then he and the ballerina see each other. They both smile and glide toward each other. She does a beautiful arabesque and he lovingly knocks her cold with a right upper cut.
In biology, as in arts and entertainment, some things combine beautifully and some just don’t. This is particularly true of medicinal plants and pharmaceuticals. Whether they come from nature or from a sterile laboratory, chemicals are chemicals. Sometimes chemicals work together beautifully. Sometimes they interfere with each other in disastrous ways.
I have worked with countless clients over the years helping them to navigate issues of illness or injury through the use of the Good Lord’s amazing green pharmacy. I also get mountains of emails asking whether such and such an herb might be a good idea in a given case. And, what’s the first question I ask in every single one of those cases?
“What Medications are you taking?“
Why? Because I understand the dance. I understand that a fellow in a green leotard is going to get along much better with the corps de ballet than a guy in green boxer shorts.
Sometimes herbs and drugs can work beautifully together and that’s a good thing. Sometimes it’s a disaster. Let’s look at some examples.
Additive effects
Herbs and drugs can have similar actions. Sometimes this can be a good thing and adding the herb can decrease the dosage needed for the pharmaceutical. But, sometimes it can create a situation of “too much of a good thing“. As an example, an insulin-dependent diabetic that takes herbs that also lower blood sugars could lower blood sugars to dangerous levels. This same additive effect can also be problematic in folks taking medicine for high blood pressure. That said, while some herbs used for high blood pressure beat the same drum the drug is beating and cause real problems, other herbs, which support normal blood pressure through different means, can be a tremendous boon to folks on blood pressure meds. Some herbs are blood thinners. Some drugs are blood thinners. Some herbs are sedating. Some drugs are sedating, etc… You can see where I’m going with this.
Interference With Absorption or Elimination
Some herbs, like marshmallow, slippery elm and mallow to name a few, contain a substance called mucilage. Mucilage is, in many cases, the principle benefit of taking those herbs. It’s amazingly soothing to irritated mucus membranes anywhere in the body. But mucilage is also thick, slimy stuff that can physically entrap other herbs or medicines in the gut and keep them from being absorbed by the body.
Other herbs have the ability to influence enzymes in our bodies, or they may compete with prescription drugs by attaching to the same receptors on the surfaces of cells. This interaction can slow down the process of removing the drug from the body. Consequently, if the drug remains in the bloodstream longer than intended and overlaps with the timing of the next scheduled dose, the accumulated amount of the drug could mimic the effects of an overdose. Bad idea. It’s important to understand this risk to avoid potentially dangerous interactions between herbs and medications.
Accelerated Elimination
Other herbs love the body dearly and want to keep it clean…sweet little rascals. They do this by stimulating and improving function of the liver or kidneys, the principal organs engaged in the elimination of toxins from the body. If such herbs are taken with medications they may cause the serum life of the medication to be much shorter and therefore render the drug much less effective. As another example, people often ask me if they should take herbs like Oregon grape or milk thistle (rock stars for protecting the body from toxins) to protect their body while taking chemotherapy. Think about that for a minute. The purpose of chemotherapy is to poison the body and kill cancer cells. If one eliminates the chemotherapy drugs before they can even begin to do their job, what’s the point of taking them? The take home message there is, if you’re going to poison yourself, do it like you mean it. However, when the chemo treatments are complete, taking Oregon grape, milk thistle and other cleansing and restorative herbs to clean up the mess that was made is a great idea.
Those are just a few examples of how herbs and drugs can interact. Each of those could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on applications and the the specific drug and herb in question.
A bold New Project
As I think about my own herb practice and the importance of these principles, I’ve decided that this sort of information is critical to keep herb users and herbalists safe from doing harm to themselves or their clients. As a result, I and Dr. Brandon Rose (a Ph.D. Physiologist and one of our instructors) have decided to create a new section in The HomeGrown Herbalist School of Botanical Medicine on pharmaceuticals and how herbs interact with them so that our students can make good choices and recommendations and prevent problems with those they are healing. Like a good physician, a good herbalists first motto should be “Do No Harm“.
If you’d like an herbal education experience which really is like nothing else out there, we invite you to join us. Our staff of instructors have a deep love and respect for the wisdom and experience derived from millennia of herb use as well as a clear understanding of the utility and importance of modern research on herbal actions. We also deeply understand anatomy, physiology, pathology, biochemistry and pharmacology at levels which are pretty unusual among herbalists. Our purpose is to combine and convey that knowledge to others in a way that is easily understood and amazingly useful. Students have lifetime enrollment and lifetime access so that whenever crazy old Doc Jones and his crew get a great new idea for a project or discover a new principle of healing, all students ever enrolled will always have access to the new information. We really are having a blast learning together. Join us!
PS: The cost of the school will be increasing markedly in January. This would be a really good time to enroll. Payment plans are available.
School Lifetime Enrollment Price is Changing January 16th!
Join Thousands of Learning Herbalists in the Homegrown Herbalist Online School of Botanical Medicine! If you’ve been on the fence, make sure you understand that the school price will never be this low again
A Revealing Exploration Of Herb-Drug Interactions: This is a great research project!!!! I have family I would love to get on herbs, but they are taking Rx medications. I would also like to know about allergic reactions to herbs. My Mother seem to be allergic to everything in her later years.
I would love to get her off her pain meds and use herbs.
Those are all things we could help you with deeply in the school. Come join the party! :0)
Love the short blogs…
Praying things slow down here so my cat and I can get back to normal. Love the herbal course….
So happy to learn that you’re creating a pharmaceutical section on the forum! I’m looking forward to that! Thank you for this amazing school!
THIS is a study I very much look forward to. I know it will answer so many of my questions…
I am so excited about this new addition to the school! The school is one of the few things in life that get more valuable the longer we have it (barring cool cars). So glad every day for the gift of tuition (my sweetie for my birthday!). I’ve learned so much and still have so much to learn, and I love the people I’m learning from and alongside! Thanks again, Doc & Co!
I finished the course a couple years ago on the old platform but I think I’m going to start over from the beginning and do it all again! I really look forward to this new content as it seems to be quite critical and I haven’t seen too much about it in other courses.
I think you’ll find really a lot of new or updated content since then. :0)
Boy oh boy am I glad to see this!! My biggest fear is suggesting herbs that will interfere with medications and this guide will undoubtably be a quicker read than the German E!!
I would love to do this course, is it possible to do it from another Country? I am in New Zealand and the time difference could cause issues, along with not being able to physically be there for some workshops.
Hi Joanne, I have students on every continent but Antarctica, including a number of students in Australia and New Zealand. I always laugh about how many weeds we have in common. It seems anywhere that was civilized by Britts or Europeans has a lot of the same plants. LOL
There are lots of videos of live plant walks and workshops in the online school. We’re also going to start having lots more online Zoom meetings and Q&As for students and it won’t matter where folks are for those. I work cases all the time and it seems silly not to be going through the interesting ones with the students. So we’ll be getting together once or twice a month if folks want to.
Zoom meetings with the Doc. a few times a month… heck yeah!!!!
Thanks Doc Jones for this great information. I had sent an IM on Facebook on the 22nd, but the messenger said to email you [email protected] , which I did. I haven;t received a response from the office. My name and email will be below, if someone can check and see of they received my email, I would greatly appreciate it. Looking so forward to starting the Master classes. Many Blessings to You and Your family and Happy New Year.
Thank you so much for this post and the new section in the school. I look forward to learning more. Happy new year!
I am a current student and I am enjoying every minute of the lessons. I looked at other online herbal programs, but no other school has Dr. Jones. His clinical expertise as a doctor along with his herbal knowledge and practice are unmatched among the other teachers out there. Plus, his engaging and informative teaching style is rich with nuggets of wisdom that bring the information in each lesson to life. Looking forward to learning more!
This is absolutely wonderful! I will continue to revisit the material in the course and cannot wait to study this incredibly important material!
I can’t begin to express how much I appreciate your doing this. I’m pretty excited to see it!!!
This is wonderful news! I finished the course and return frequently to dive deeper. This addition will be a fantastic resource!
Dear Doc Jones,
I am thankful for you in so many ways (creativity – which not only empowers you as a story-teller, –I believe your knowledge AND creativity keeps you open to the herbs you use and discovering new remedies).
Reading this blog gave me a health & financial lump in my throat:
Marshmallow&peppermint Tea has become a favorite of my husband & I working on his leaky gut & my auto-immune. After reading this blog, I wondered how much of our supplements have been absorbed & eliminated.
Does the absorption happen in the gut? or the blood?
(wondering…..If i make a tincture & use it sublingually, would it matter?)
Blessed New Year to you, yours, and your future transitions & endeavors!
Lyla
PS: Your Hawthorn tincture is doing its stuff, as well as the powdered milk thistle that I made into a tincture. THANKS AGAIN!
#HealthCare2SelfCare
Hi Lyla,
Marshmallow and peppermint is a great combination for a lot of things. Many of peppermint’s effects on the gut are direct and local and, as a tea or tincture, marshmallow is less likely to mechanically bind things up anyway. The only time marshmallow is a problem is if folks are taking large doses of the powder in capsules or by mixing the powder with some water or juice and drinking it. Then it might bind up some things taken at the same time. But what you’re doing is nothing but good. Carry on. :0)
This folk thinks that getting together once or twice a month over zoom sounds fantastic! (enthusiastically raising my hand)
Great! My family doesn’t take any prescription drug but this new section is a brilliant idea when helping our friends and neighbors. Thanks so much!
I’m currently enrolled in the school and I’ve stated several times how much I’m enjoying the material. Some of the best money I have ever spent. I’m really excited about this new class because I realized what a responsibility it is to do no harm to someone when you tell them about an herb (for entertainment and educational purposes only, of course….).
I also raise my hand for bi-monthly zoom classes. Many thanks for the new class on drug/herb interactions.
Greetings!! I started this program only about a month ago but have gleaned so much already!! I have made a bit of a schedule for myself so I keep in it regularly each week! Thank you Doc Jones for your love of sharing what you know & have experienced & learned with us!! I deeply appreciate & value you & the program. Working with my PA, I take some prescription drugs but an very happy to say that I am successfully reducing the amount of them over time. My goal is to eliminate them altogether & replace any needed help with medicinal herbs. So this new part of your program is of particular interest to me personally, but also when I am able to help others with herbs. I believe that 2024 will be a very challenging year & the value of learning & applying what this program offers will be extremely valuable. I am learning so much from Doc Jones & I am eager to spend & invest my time & energy in this program & also in developing my own medicinal herb garden.
I am so excited about this new content. I took a pharmacognosy class in pharmacy school 40 years ago but they taught nothing about drug/herb interactions. I do have some herb books that include a bit of this information, but I would really like to understand the MOAs of these interactions, I feel it makes it easier to remember. A book dedicated to drug/herb interactions would be invaluable. Hint. Hint.
I look forward to taking that module once it’s up in the school. Doc Jones, will you be adding pregnancy and midwife courses to the curriculum?
My wife Lori is a midwife and naturopath. While we do, and will continue, to talk about herbs uses during pregnancy, we’ll be launching a new in-depth school on healthy pregnancy and nursing. That’s a much deeper subject than just medicinal plants. :0)
I look forward to taking that module once it’s up in the school. Doc Jones, will you be adding pregnancy and midwife courses to the curriculum?
I recently signed up for the school but haven’t started yet. I am very excited to see this as an addition. I am hypothyroid and would like to see if I can support my body and maybe reduce/eliminate my Levothyroxine but want to make sure I am not doing harm to myself. So thank you very much. Looking forward to all of the learning I am about to do.
I have been using marshmallow root powder as a binder the way you teach in the courses, for making powder into pills. I use minimal amounts, but am I shooting myself in the foot by blocking absorption? Can you address this in the new course on interactions please? Thank you
Not at all Anne. I use marshmallow and other mucilaginous herbss in lots of my formulas. As a small percentage of the formula (like in your pills or a regular herb formula) it’s irrelevant. The times it would be problematic for binfing n inhibiting absorption of other things is if someone was taking it alone in a larger dose.
This is so exciting to hear that you will be expanding our knowledge to the interactions of pharmaceuticals with herbs. I have a lot of concern as to whether or not an herb might interact with something as simple as an OTC allergy med. Thank you Doc Jones for all of your expertise, as well as those on staff. I love this school! So much to learn…and absorb; so little time.
I can’t thank you enough, Doc Jones, for the incredible course and study that I have been able to benefit from as a result of your hard work. Not only are you the only other herbal instructor out there that has earned a medical degree in healing modalities (DVM) but you have decades of experience of healing and working with animals and people in a clinical setting for healing.
I love that you are continuing to pour all that you have into giving us the very best education possible. Can’t wait to be on a zoom call and to go through the new section of the course. This has been the best $900 I have ever spent.
Anyone reading this and sitting on the fence, the current price is an INCREDIBLE value. If you wait just a few days, it is going to cost you ‘markedly’ more. Don’t miss out!
Wow….I just love this info….I signed up for the school about a month ago and have not yet started it due to demands related to the holidays. I am clearing my calendar, straining and bottling the tinctures I have made over the past couple of years, and getting everything in order so I can concentrate on learning. I just know i won’t want to do anything else except learn once I get started. I love the way you present information…I have watched and listened to every YouTube and interview you have done as well as reading both your books. I am really impressed and I love your sense of humor. I find myself listening for “those little extra nuggets” of information you always include. I had no idea there would be Zoom classes…I’m so excited. So glad I signed up when I did!
My cup is overflowing!!!!! I can’t thank you enough for everything you do! All of it! And now a new module on pharmaceutical interactions… and I was just looking at books on amazon to help me with this! Seriously Doc. Signing up for your school has been the best investment I ever made. And that’s the truth.
Bless your sweet heart Doc! I had written to you previously about you doing a consult for me because after many years of not being on any “drugs”/meds, my new primary care doctor has put me on 2 meds (and though he does a lot of lab/blood work, he admittedly doesn’t know herbs – and I’m so phobic of those meds interacting badly with our God given healing and helpful herbs. This class will be even better than a consult since it can help us help others AND stay safe ourselves. You have been such a gift to so many of us – I tell others about this amazing course often! Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
I am in the school but I find that I have gone through some classes multiple times, I think because the course I was in was revamped while I was taking it. But currently I am concerned that I cannot reply to comments on the treads. There simply is no way to type a reply. Also since my husband bought the course for me, I am never quite certain what email address you are asking me to use.